asked for but the pentagon was put in by bloated congress people who wanted to do stuff for people in their district. i'm a fairly hawkish on defense, but this is an enterprise that hasn't been touched for 30 years and this may be our only chance. >> that's interesting sort of where the two sides come together, which is to say members of the progressive left think this is the only time we're going to get these defense cuts and deficit hawks, conservatives, tea partiers are putting moderate republicans in a bind saying this is cutting our deficit. let's go for it. >> the grand irony, of course, is the fact that the number -- if you poll people their number one issue is jobs, right? it continues to be jobs. and $120 billion austerity crunch, the numbers being bantered around, in exchange for the sequester, which is like $85 billion. whatever it is, right, that's a big chunk. that will have an effect, negative jobs effect, no question. >> it is going to have an effect, i agree with you, chris. here is what i think. i think it is a risk. there will probably be a small recession.